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	<title>Comments on: Race, genre fiction and roleplaying</title>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://mostlygeek.sucanty.com/2009/01/race-genre-fiction-and-roleplaying/comment-page-1/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 05:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mostlygeek.sucanty.com/?p=300#comment-44</guid>
		<description>Svend - best comment on the blog so far! I&#039;m glad my post caused some thoughts and if I had something to give you, I would. Let me know if you ever need a severely beat up copy of the 1e DMG.

Having been in Japan recently, Japanese culture definitely counts as other. It&#039;s the least western place I&#039;ve ever been - far less western than China.

Recently, a friend started a Japanese based game. He&#039;s a pakeha who&#039;s spent a lot of time in Japan and has done a metric fuckton of research and planning for this game. Another friend was a bit reluctant to play largely because he wasn&#039;t sure that he could play the game well. He overcame his inhibitions and was enjoying the campaign as much as pretty much any other game he&#039;s played.

So, I know exactly what you&#039;re talking about when you say that it&#039;s about &quot;what stories can I tell fluently and easily under time pressure&quot;. That&#039;s exactly the reason I find running sci-fi games tough as well. That doesn&#039;t change the Sophie&#039;s point - there are plenty of modern style games where you need to have non-white characters to be faithful to the setting.

In short, I think this is as much about players as it is about GMs - it&#039;s good to play something that isn&#039;t a direct extension of yourself and perhaps have some fun with the setting as a result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Svend &#8211; best comment on the blog so far! I&#8217;m glad my post caused some thoughts and if I had something to give you, I would. Let me know if you ever need a severely beat up copy of the 1e DMG.</p>
<p>Having been in Japan recently, Japanese culture definitely counts as other. It&#8217;s the least western place I&#8217;ve ever been &#8211; far less western than China.</p>
<p>Recently, a friend started a Japanese based game. He&#8217;s a pakeha who&#8217;s spent a lot of time in Japan and has done a metric fuckton of research and planning for this game. Another friend was a bit reluctant to play largely because he wasn&#8217;t sure that he could play the game well. He overcame his inhibitions and was enjoying the campaign as much as pretty much any other game he&#8217;s played.</p>
<p>So, I know exactly what you&#8217;re talking about when you say that it&#8217;s about &#8220;what stories can I tell fluently and easily under time pressure&#8221;. That&#8217;s exactly the reason I find running sci-fi games tough as well. That doesn&#8217;t change the Sophie&#8217;s point &#8211; there are plenty of modern style games where you need to have non-white characters to be faithful to the setting.</p>
<p>In short, I think this is as much about players as it is about GMs &#8211; it&#8217;s good to play something that isn&#8217;t a direct extension of yourself and perhaps have some fun with the setting as a result.</p>
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		<title>By: Sophie</title>
		<link>http://mostlygeek.sucanty.com/2009/01/race-genre-fiction-and-roleplaying/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>Sophie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mostlygeek.sucanty.com/?p=300#comment-41</guid>
		<description>No need to apologise! All interesting points and I think that your comment on &quot;what stories can I fluently tell&quot; is a good one. After all story telling, whether as part of a game or not, generally comes from shared cultural experience. 

Though that aside if you are playing a game in modern LA, for example, and you don&#039;t have at least one Hispanic and/or Black character you aren&#039;t being overly representative. Though then of course you get in to the murky waters of stereotype... which is a whole other discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No need to apologise! All interesting points and I think that your comment on &#8220;what stories can I fluently tell&#8221; is a good one. After all story telling, whether as part of a game or not, generally comes from shared cultural experience. </p>
<p>Though that aside if you are playing a game in modern LA, for example, and you don&#8217;t have at least one Hispanic and/or Black character you aren&#8217;t being overly representative. Though then of course you get in to the murky waters of stereotype&#8230; which is a whole other discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: Svend</title>
		<link>http://mostlygeek.sucanty.com/2009/01/race-genre-fiction-and-roleplaying/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Svend</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Jan 2009 00:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mostlygeek.sucanty.com/?p=300#comment-40</guid>
		<description>The Mountain Witch.  Actually, given the whole &quot;otaku&quot; phenomenon, does Japanese culture count as &quot;other&quot;? :)

But seriously, while I can think of a handful of games that consciously encourage you to play characters in a different culture (Orkworld springs to mind, for some reason), I suspect that the reason that they&#039;re not that common is the same reason that faux-medieval fantasy and urban fantasy games are more popular than sci-fi games -- familiarity.  While you need to absorb a bunch of background to know whether a laser carbine is more useful to grab than a PGMP when you&#039;re scrambling out the airlock, pretty much everyone knows what a crossbow or submachine-gun is.

Which is why it makes complete sense that, for example, when our group played Universalis, my proposed setting of &quot;Jamaican Folktale&quot; got voted out -- it is very hard to make an interesting story when you don&#039;t know how that group of stories is supposed to work (the stock characters and situations, etc). As it happens, we eventually went with &quot;Russian Folktale&quot;, which seemed to work fine.

And I certainly wouldn&#039;t feel comfortable running a game about, say, Thailand or Indonesia without an awful lot of prep -- just because I don&#039;t think I know enough interesting things about those cultures to make a compelling story. (A pulp game set in those places would be a different matter, of course; but they&#039;re then more colour than countries.)  I&#039;d be a bit wary about playing someone from these cultures, too.

That said, there are plenty of cultures that I would have no problem running a game in -- ancient China, for example. (Note that I do not say a *realistic* game.) There is enough media out there showing me the shapes of stories in that setting that I can have some confidence that I can say, &quot;You meet in a teahouse&quot; and have an idea of what might happen, and who might be around; and that the players will have some idea too.

(BTW, if you have not read the Barry Hughart books featuring Li Kao &amp; Number 10 Ox, may I take this opportunity to recommend them.)

In summary -- I think that much of the reason for the monoculture is not &quot;fear of the other&quot;, as such, and more &quot;what stories can I tell fluently and easily under time pressure&quot; (since you can&#039;t go and research an appropriate response in the middle of a game).

Of course, the question then becomes, &quot;Is it important to expand the contexts I can comfortably tell stories in?&quot;  And I&#039;d say, tentatively, that I find it more fun. :)

[Sorry for the dump; I accidentally read this after your Kapcon post, and it&#039;s been rolling around in my head ever since.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Mountain Witch.  Actually, given the whole &#8220;otaku&#8221; phenomenon, does Japanese culture count as &#8220;other&#8221;? <img src='http://mostlygeek.sucanty.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>But seriously, while I can think of a handful of games that consciously encourage you to play characters in a different culture (Orkworld springs to mind, for some reason), I suspect that the reason that they&#8217;re not that common is the same reason that faux-medieval fantasy and urban fantasy games are more popular than sci-fi games &#8212; familiarity.  While you need to absorb a bunch of background to know whether a laser carbine is more useful to grab than a PGMP when you&#8217;re scrambling out the airlock, pretty much everyone knows what a crossbow or submachine-gun is.</p>
<p>Which is why it makes complete sense that, for example, when our group played Universalis, my proposed setting of &#8220;Jamaican Folktale&#8221; got voted out &#8212; it is very hard to make an interesting story when you don&#8217;t know how that group of stories is supposed to work (the stock characters and situations, etc). As it happens, we eventually went with &#8220;Russian Folktale&#8221;, which seemed to work fine.</p>
<p>And I certainly wouldn&#8217;t feel comfortable running a game about, say, Thailand or Indonesia without an awful lot of prep &#8212; just because I don&#8217;t think I know enough interesting things about those cultures to make a compelling story. (A pulp game set in those places would be a different matter, of course; but they&#8217;re then more colour than countries.)  I&#8217;d be a bit wary about playing someone from these cultures, too.</p>
<p>That said, there are plenty of cultures that I would have no problem running a game in &#8212; ancient China, for example. (Note that I do not say a *realistic* game.) There is enough media out there showing me the shapes of stories in that setting that I can have some confidence that I can say, &#8220;You meet in a teahouse&#8221; and have an idea of what might happen, and who might be around; and that the players will have some idea too.</p>
<p>(BTW, if you have not read the Barry Hughart books featuring Li Kao &amp; Number 10 Ox, may I take this opportunity to recommend them.)</p>
<p>In summary &#8212; I think that much of the reason for the monoculture is not &#8220;fear of the other&#8221;, as such, and more &#8220;what stories can I tell fluently and easily under time pressure&#8221; (since you can&#8217;t go and research an appropriate response in the middle of a game).</p>
<p>Of course, the question then becomes, &#8220;Is it important to expand the contexts I can comfortably tell stories in?&#8221;  And I&#8217;d say, tentatively, that I find it more fun. <img src='http://mostlygeek.sucanty.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>[Sorry for the dump; I accidentally read this after your Kapcon post, and it's been rolling around in my head ever since.]</p>
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